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How Do Cats Behave?
Dr. Mikel Delgado • 2026-03-03
Dylan Carnahan:WEBVTT Welcome to the Simple Questions Podcast. This is your host, Dylan Carnahan. The question for this episode is, how do cats behave? You will learn in this episode, how common behavioral issues are often rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding. How breed-specific temperaments and human misconceptions shape the daily cat owner relationship. And what the leading edge of research still hasn't uncovered about the feline mind. Our guest has a Ph.D. in psychology, specializing in animal behavior and cognition, with a focus on feline developmental science. A certified applied animal behaviorist, an elite professional distinction held by only a select group of experts. And a best-selling author of Total Cat Mojo and Play With Your Cat, I introduce to you Dr. Michael Delgado. I am very little. I don't know how young, but I'm opening the door to our basement, and my dad introduces me to a cat named Tori. And I am absolutely, I'm like curious and very scared of this, whatever this thing is. And I know he's kind of encouraging me to pet Tori. And I go ahead and do that. And this would end up being kind of my childhood cat, if you will. And that was my first, I guess, exposure to cats. So I'm curious, Michael, how did you first become interested in cats?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:We definitely had a few family cats when I was a kid, but they were mostly outdoors. So I grew up in a pretty rural area. And it was kind of a very different mindset about cats. So they did spend a lot of time outdoors, often got hit by cars. None of them had a long, like, luxurious life. So it really wasn't like I was, I mean, I loved cats. I was definitely interested in them from a young age. Found them fascinating. I begged my mom for years to let me adopt a cat because, you know, this was post household cats. I was 16, I think, and I finally wore her down and she let me adopt a cat who later moved to California with me. He lived for me, with me for several years. But I mean, so of the animals, which I loved all animals, but cats were always my favorite. And definitely if I went to someone's house, they had cats. I was very, you know, drawn to the cats. But I did not grow up thinking like I was going to be that veterinarian person who was going to, you know, take care of all the animals as an adult. That was definitely not in my mindset. But I did become obsessed with cats pretty young and just really loved them and wanted to be around them.
Dylan Carnahan:Yeah, and so a lot of times when we hear talk to guests about, you know, an interest in something, you know, an interest is one thing, right? But then to make that as a vocation or profession, that's an entirely different journey. Can you share with us how you made that kind of commitment?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Yeah. I mean, my life was going in a very different direction. I was living in the Bay Area, San Francisco. I was playing in rock bands. That was really my thing at the time. So I had two cats that, you know, lived with me that were my little fuzzy BFFs. But, you know, I was very into my bands and the punk scene, and I was working at a health food cooperative and was very happy with, you know, that job and the music scene and being part of it. But then one of my cat's kittens passed away, and it was pretty tragic, unexpected. He actually, I had to put him to sleep on my birthday. He was the coolest cat. He was just a really great cat, but he had a heart condition. And so he was gone from my life very suddenly, and it was very hard for me to go through that loss. And a friend of mine had been volunteering at the local shelter, the San Francisco SPCA, and he was like, you know, I think it would help you if you volunteered here. And you know, I think he wanted me to volunteer with him too, because he wanted to have a friend doing it as well. But he really encouraged me to volunteer at the shelter. And so I did. And that was really, I think, when the floodgates opened, because now I'm around lots of cats, but I'm also around cats in a very different environment, which is the animal shelter. And that was really the catalyst for deciding that there were cats that needed help in the world, and I wanted to help them, and I also wanted to help the humans that lived with those cats. So it was really a chance, my cat passing away, my friend volunteering at the shelter, and then me actually taking the step of going to the shelter that really changed my life.
Dylan Carnahan:That's something I want to focus on. You brought up the state of cats. And as someone who, as a young person, I was in an animal health program, and I very quickly realized that when you're around these animals, you're not seeing them at their best. Much like a human provider, right? You're not seeing these patients at their best. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think certainly when you go to the shelter, you're like, oh, I just want to play with kittens, and it's great, right? But this was a very progressive shelter in that they did a lot to really help advance how animals were cared for and really try to improve their welfare. And one of the things is that they didn't have cages for adult cats. So all the cats had little rooms, so it made it much easier to interact with the cats because they were in a space, they had furniture in the room, so it was more like a home environment. And so you could sit in the room and hang out with the cats. But even with this very lovely shelter that had tons of resources, a lot of the cats really struggled. So there were cats who were really too afraid to come out of hiding, cats who would maybe bite if you petted them for more than a few seconds, cats who didn't really enjoy being around other cats. So it was very, like you said, not what you expect, and certainly not what my experience with cats had been in the past. So you're now entering a very stressful environment. Why does this environment exist? Because something has gone wrong with the human pet relationship, right? Whether that's a failure to access, span neuter resources, or a bond has broken because the pet has a behavior problem, or the human is suddenly homeless and does not have the ability to take that pet with them to a shelter or their next housing situation. So there's kind of a societal failure between humans and their animals that causes this need for animal shelters to exist in the first place. So one of the other things was that this shelter actually had a program for working with the cats who are not coping well in the shelter. And so these cats had like a special ward. You could only visit them if you had special training. And so they were off limits to a lot of volunteers. So immediately I was like, oh, I want to work with those cats because one of the things I really enjoyed about being in the shelter was kind of what you said. This was really about them and not so much about me. You know, I went there because I was missing the cat I'd lost and I wanted more cat time. But what I realized was that I was there to be of service for the cats who were struggling and stressed and needed someone to be a quiet, calm presence or someone to play with them with a toy or someone to bring them treats or whatever. It was really just how can we help these cats adapt to the shelter and find a new home?
Dylan Carnahan:Wow, first off, this place seems, as you put it, very extremely progressive. Some of the things that you're mentioning are just very insightful, and there's a lot of empathy in your voice when talking about this. I want to focus on some of these behaviors that you mentioned, like too afraid, biting, or maybe socialization with other cats, or maybe people. I know it's a very broad array, but I guess, where do these behavioral issues come from?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Yeah, that's a great question. So we know that cats have a very short and early socialization window. So this is when kittens would ideally be exposed to people, other animals, new experiences, household sounds, being in a cat carrier, going to the vet. That period for them is two to nine weeks of age, approximately. So that is very young, and it's a very short window of time that we have to positively influence these kittens' development in a way that's going to help them be great pets. So most cats do not get appropriate handling at that age. A lot of those kittens are on the street or in a cage in a shelter. If we're lucky, they're in a foster home, but a lot of times they're not. So what we have is a population of cats where a lot of them are what we would call under-socialized. So they didn't get the kind of exposures that were positive and varied at that time period to allow them to accept, like, okay, people are good. Dogs are okay. Other cats are cool. I don't mind going to the vet in the car. The car ride is kind of fun. These are things that kittens don't learn. By the time a cat is adopted into a home or a kitten is adopted into a home, that door is slowly closing on exposing them to these things in a positive way. So they tend to be fearful of new things and new people. So, for example, a kitten who has a single foster parent, right? So they're in a home when they're young, they're cared for by the very kind person. They learn to love that person. A kitten who is in a foster situation where there's five people in the home, they all handle the kitten, they give the kitten treats, they play with the kitten, they have visitors come and have positive experiences with that kitten. That kitten learns that all people are good, whereas the kitten who only met one person trusts that one person, so they're going to have to start all over again with a new person. So when they go to their next home, it's going to take them longer to adjust than that kitten who got all that exposure to many different people and has learned to generalize that people are good. So that's one source of behavior issues is the fact that we do not do a great job of socializing kittens. Source number two is we do not always provide cats with a good environment to thrive in. So an example would be litter box problems, which are a very common reason that cats end up in animal shelters or lose their homes otherwise, sometimes are put to sleep. It's also one of the more common reasons people call someone like me a cat behavior consultant for help, because it is a major problem to live with. Nobody wants to live with a cat who's peeing on their bed, pooping on their floor, et cetera. But a lot of the problems really stem from the human does not provide the cat with a good litter box. It's either not big enough, it's not clean enough, it doesn't have a litter that the cat likes, it's not in a place that the cat feels safe to go to the bathroom. So I'm always surprised at how many people will pay me a lot of money to tell them they need to scoop the litter box more frequently. So that's an example of a problem, but the source is sometimes human behavior. And then I'd say sometimes it's often a combination of factors. If a cat is not particularly fond of other animals, but they're forced to live in an environment where there are five other cats and a dog, that cat is going to be very stressed out. And so they might be aggressive towards people, or just withdrawn, or not very friendly. And it actually may be a very lovely, nice cat in a different situation, but the current situation they're in is just not great for them.
Dylan Carnahan:Wow. There's a lot here. One of the things that I'm going to go kind of for the deeper one, which is, again, you talk about that two to nine week span being like a critical thing. And again, this just draws a lot of parallels again, just think about people, right? Childhood trauma, some of these sentiments come up. You know, when you have this animal, and you know, that window's passed, I guess, how does that reconciliation process go?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:It's often a very slow process. And, you know, to be fair, it's also influenced by genetics and by the current environment that the animal's living in. So, you could have a cat. We know, actually, that kittens inherit boldness and friendliness from their father, which is interesting because the father does not participate in care of the kittens, right? And so, another complication is, of course, that kittens should stay with their moms until they're like eight or nine weeks of age, at least. So, you know, in an ideal world, cats who have kittens would be in a home, and the kittens would be handled by people while they're also being cared for by their actual mother. So, you know, I think once you have that cat in your home and they have a behavior issue or they're shy or scared, you know, there are things we can do to modify their behavior, and that could be as simple as making sure that they have safe places to go where they feel comfortable, you know, hiding spots that they're comfortable with, because we know when cats are, you don't want to force them out of hiding, and I think a lot of people think like, oh, if he's hiding all the time, like he's not doing well, which is true, but if you take away that cat's hiding spot, he'll actually be worse, his welfare will be worse. So sometimes it's using treatments just like we would actually use with people who have phobias or trauma. So processes like what we call desensitization and counter-conditioning, where you do very slow controlled exposure to things that the animal is scared of, and often pairing it with something they feel comfortable with like a toy or a treat. But I fully believe that just like in humans, the early life experience of these kittens can have an influence probably on both their health and behavior for their entire life, because of course, if you're kind of predisposed to physical stress because of your early life experiences that can cause health problems and of course, affect your mental health. So there's not really that clear separation between mind and body, right? I think we're increasingly recognizing that in humans and other animals. So there are things we can do, and I think a big thing is providing the cat with a good environment, doing behavior modification if necessary, and being very patient, you know? It's like a lot of cats do just need a lot of time to adjust to a new environment. It's very common for cats to hide at first in a new home. And within a few weeks, they should be coming out and comfortable. And if they're not, then you probably do need help. But we also want to make sure the cats are doing basic things like eating and using the litter box, you know, going to the bathroom and consuming food and water so that they're physically healthy, even if they're spending a lot of time hiding under the bed.
Dylan Carnahan:You know, we've talked earlier about, you know, a good environment has been brought up a couple of times. Can you know, what is that ideal environment?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Sure. Yeah. So cats have instincts that lead them to have basic needs that fulfill them physically and behaviorally. So a good example is scratching. So if you bring a cat into your home and you don't provide them with a good scratching post, there's a high probability that they will scratch your couch, scratch your chairs, scratch your record collection, whatever they can dig their claws into. And that's because scratching is a natural behavior that fulfills multiple needs for them. It allows them to stretch their back muscles. It allows them to condition their claws. It allows them to mark their territory. So if you do not provide them with something to scratch, then they will find something to scratch. And often it's something that the person doesn't like. And so instead of giving the cat an outlet for scratching behavior, people often try to repress it, suppress it, stop it, instead of giving their cat several great scratching posts. So the ideal environment would understand who cats are. So even though cats are considered domesticated, we have not changed their behavior very much during the domestication process. So in many ways, they're very similar to their closest wild ancestor, which is the African wildcat. So they're primarily a predator. They hunt and eat alone. They mark their territory, whether it's by scratching or rubbing, or in some cases, you're in marking, although we don't like that in our homes. But they have instincts to, for example, eliminate in a clean location. They are predators, so they need an outlet for predatory behavior. We don't want them to go outside and kill birds, but we can play with them with toys that resemble birds, right? We can provide them with places to hide and climb. We know that cats like to be up high. They like to see what's going on around them. They will climb trees, so we can provide them with climbing options in our home. So there's, I think it's really recognizing who cats are, and making sure that they have outlets for all those behaviors. And so that would include things like, yeah, making sure you clean your litter boxes multiple times a day, providing them with cat furniture like the cat trees and kitty condos, providing them with hiding places, providing them with lots of scratching options, separating their feeding areas, so they're not forced to eat together, because again, cats are solitary hunters, so they don't take down prey as a group and eat it together. So there's really, some of these things are not very complicated, but it is just kind of recognizing who cats are, and how can we accommodate those behaviors. And then some of it is also making sure we're providing them with both mental and physical stimulation through that, like, wand toy play, maybe things like food puzzles, which are objects that your cat can manipulate to get food out of them, so like a ball with holes in it, toys to play with on their own, cats like catnip or cat grass, some cats like videos of birds to watch, my cats have a little catio where they can go outside in a safe enclosure, and they can't wander, but they can watch birds and squirrels out there. So really trying to cater to all of their senses and provide them with an environment that's relatively stimulating without being overwhelming and scary. That was a lot.
Dylan Carnahan:No, this is great. This is great. There's a lot of excellent information there. Again, going back to that human relationship and talking about how there are certain behaviors that are maybe misunderstood, therefore, they're repressed. I guess, what are some commonly misunderstood things about cats?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Yeah, I think one of them is that people don't realize that you can train cats. It's not necessarily like training a dog, but I think it can be really helpful to train cats, to do certain things or to accept certain things. So an example would, or really just, I think, for us to pay attention to what behaviors we are reinforcing in our cat. Because a lot of times when people come to me, they have a problem with their cat. Let's say it's getting on the counters. So the first thing we want to think about is, why is the cat getting on the counter? Right? So possibilities include, there's food on the counter and the cat likes to lick dirty plates because the people have not put the dirty plates in the dishwasher. So now the behavior of going up on the counter is being reinforced by the snack that the cat gets up there. Sometimes the cat wants to be up high, so they can see what's going on around them. And so if you do not provide your cat with vertical spaces like shelving or cat trees, then maybe the kitchen counter is the highest place they can go. There's a window behind the sink. They like to watch birds and they're not provided with outlets for that behavior anywhere else. So now, in that case, the behavior is reinforced because the cat can go up there and be up high or look at birds. Sometimes the cat gets attention for going up on the counter, right? So that could be the person's cooking, cat jumps up on the counter and the person pets them and says like, okay, get down. And they put the cat on the floor. And then five seconds later, the cat's back up on the counter. So that behavior is being reinforced by the attention the cat's getting, possibly the treats they're getting. And sometimes people say like, well, I chase him off the counter and he still goes back up there. So you've not sufficiently made another behavior acceptable to the cat, right? So when we address this type of problem, we want to understand why is the cat doing this? Is it food? Is it attention? Is it height? Let's give the cat those things somewhere else that is acceptable to the cat and the human. So for example, let's put a cat tree just outside the kitchen. Give your cat treats for sitting on the cat tree. Give your cat attention for sitting on the cat tree. Now the cat gets attention, treats, and height not on the kitchen counter. So in that case, we are training a behavior. The cat can't be on the cat tree and on the counter at the same time. So we're reinforcing a different behavior that we would like the cat to experience. Instead of just yelling at them or spraying them with water or pushing them off the counter, we are instead telling them what we would like them to do while we're cooking, which is sit on the cat tree and watch me cook several feet away from the counters instead of walking all over the counters. So sometimes it is just basic, like people not setting up the environment correctly for their cat and then they're rewarding behaviors or maybe not recognizing that the behavior is rewarding for certain reasons for the cat. So I think that's a major misunderstanding is that cats are trainable. And you can train them to do cute things too. Like my cats can sit and high five and ring bells for treats and stuff. So, you know, it can be fun for them and for people. And I think it does help people pay attention to behaviors they like if they do positive reinforcement based training with their cat. And that positive reinforcement based training just means you reward the behaviors you want. And in theory, then other behaviors kind of go away because they're not being rewarded. Another misunderstanding, cats are not humans. They're not dogs. So, so many people kind of judge cats either on what they think is going on or what they think a dog would do, right? So, they say, oh, he's being spiteful or he's being willful or he's jealous or they expect their cat to like things that they want to do, like maybe be petted a lot. One thing that people don't know about cats is that they are what we call a high-frequency low-intensity contact species. So, let me break that down for you. High-frequency, often, low-intensity, short and just a brush by. So, if you look at cats, interacting with other cats they're friendly with. So, there's been lots of studies of cats in feral colonies where cats naturally congregate. When they have cats that they like, they tend to just brush by them, rub against them, and move on their way. So, it's a very short interaction. However, you add a human to the equation, we have very sensitive hands and we have very sensitive lips. We want to touch and pet and kiss a lot, and cats are very soft and cute. So, often people handle cats like they like to touch, right? So, the cat gets irritated because it's too much, and then turns and bites the human, and the person's like, this cat's a jerk. Instead of thinking like, oh, I didn't respect how cats like to be touched, which is usually in short, frequent bursts that end very quickly.
Dylan Carnahan:This, you know, a recurring theme here, again, there's quite a bit of depth in this conversation, right? And, you know, a lot of maybe projection or misunderstandings, you know, coming from the human aspect here. What are, I guess, some, and again, maybe projecting kind of what dogs are or other animals that we're used to, I guess, what are some signs or things that we could read or glean off of our animals or cats?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Yeah. Yeah. So it's definitely helpful to learn basic body language of cats and understand, because it is different than dogs, right? A wagging tail in a dog usually means they're happy and excited. A wagging tail in a cat can mean irritation, and I'm about to chomp on your hand if you keep petting me. So that's one example. A cat who is comfortable will generally be, it's like they get more liquid as they get more relaxed, right? They're going to be more stretched out, laying on their side, just loose their body. Whereas a cat who's very tense are crouching and tight body, maybe tight face, ears are moving a lot. That's a cat who's a little more irritated. So, you know, I think it's always important. You know, there's certainly, there's a great book called Kitty Language by Lily Chin, and that's a great visual kind of guide to cat body language that I highly recommend. It's a really fun, easy read. But you always have to be careful. Sometimes people are like, well, what is that? You know, if the tail is swishing, is he always angry? And it's like, no, sometimes they're frustrated, or sometimes they're excited. And so you always have to look at the entire body. Like you can't just look at the eyes or just the tail and know exactly what a cat's thinking. And then you also have to look at what's going on in the environment, or what we would say the context. Because, you know, again, if your cat is looking at a window, and their tail is swishing, and there's a bird out there, well, they might be pretty excited in a good way. Like they're like, I want to eat that bird, and they might make that little chattering noise. I don't know if your kitty ever does that at birds when she sees them outside, but they go, but if they see another cat outside, and their tail is swishing, and they're staring, they might actually be getting pretty aggressive, and sometimes people get bitten by their cat. We call this redirected aggression, where the cat sees something that upsets them, or hears something that upsets them, and they turn on the nearest target. So people be like, he just bit me out of the blue, and it's like, what was going on? They're like, he was looking at the window, and the neighbor's cat was out there. It's like, yeah, he was upset. So you just have to look at the context. So that cat could be looking out the window and swishing their tail. But depending on if they see a bird or another cat, they could be feeling very different things and have a very different behavioral response.
Dylan Carnahan:Earlier, we were talking, and you brought up kind of the genetic component. Do different cat breeds have different temperaments?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Yeah, that's a great question. So it's tricky with cats because approximately 96% of cats are free-breeding, meaning they choose their own sex partners. So we have a very tiny percent of the cat population that is what we'd call pure-bred cat or under-controlled breeding, right? So the human is picking the mom and the dad and bringing them together to make kittens. So what we know about pure-bred cats is pretty limited, but growing. I'll say there's definitely more research happening on cat breeds. In some parts of the world, purchasing a pure-bred cat is more common. So I think it really depends on where you live as to what breeds you can find and how prevalent they are. The other thing I'll say is that through the process of breeding, so if you decide, okay, this is a cat breed and this is the characteristics of that breed, those are usually physical characteristics. The cats are maybe bred for a certain coloration, certain ear shape, certain face shape. Even despite that selection, which has occurred over the past 150 years or so, there's not that much variation if you compare it to dogs. If you think about a Chihuahua and a Great Dane, those are the same species. Those are just two different breeds, but they're both dogs. But the Chihuahua weighs like three pounds and the Great Dane weighs 100 pounds. So that's like a huge range of physical differences. Then if you look at behavioral differences, maybe you have a lap dog, a dog who's very mellow, likes to sit on people's laps, doesn't do much else, versus a border collie, who is high energy, high intensity, needs very intelligent, needs a lot of challenge. And then you look at maybe like a German shepherd, different kind of intensity, also intense, but maybe people would say more sensitive, more trainable, etc. So when you look at how we've modified cats through breeding, it doesn't seem that intense in comparison to what we've done to dogs, right? Dogs have really been selected over hundreds of years to help people with certain jobs. And then from those kind of dog families, like the herding dogs and the, you know, the hunting dogs and the lap dogs, those have kind of spread, you know, the breeds have kind of radiated out from those groups. So for cats, we don't really have that same kind of breeding for jobs, breeding for human service. We have selection for appearance, whether that's color or body type, size. Um, and then we have some regional differences, like we know cats from Asia have certain physical features and slightly different genetic lineage than other cats. So there's, there are some differences, but we haven't really done a ton of selection for behavior. I'm not saying there isn't any. Um, for example, like most ragdolls are going to be mellow compared to other breeds of cats, because there's been some selection. And of course, that depends highly on the quality of the breeder. If the breeder isn't selecting mellow parents, then the probability of having mellow kittens goes down. Um, so there are some breeders that do do a lot of selection, not just for appearance, but also temperament, personality, like, you know, traits that people like in a pet. And then there's some breeders that are really just like pumping them out for appearance and cash. So, you know, you definitely want to, if you're going to get a purebred cat, you want to do your research, find a reputable breeder that tests for health and does, you know, good socialization of the kittens and selects the parents for a specific traits. So back to, are there breed differences in personality? Yeah, so research suggests that there are some differences, but even within a breed, you're going to have a lot of difference. So you could have a very active ragdoll, even if most of the ragdolls are pretty chill and easygoing. So you can't just select a pet on breed alone and necessarily get the suite of traits that you want. So you do have to, like I said, it's helpful to meet the parents, both the human and the cat parents of the kitten you want, and do your homework and make sure that the breed is a good fit. What we've increasingly seen with cats, and it's a trend that I'm not particularly fond of is the hybridization of domestic cats with wild cats. So for example, the Bengal, that's not a breed, it's a hybrid breed. So it's a cross between a domestic cat and an Asian leopard cat, which is a wild cat. And in fact, it was one of the earliest cat species that was attempted to be domesticated, but they were not very tractable as they were described. So they were not a great candidate species to become a pet. And now people have bred a lot of domestic cats with Asian leopard cats to create the Bengals. So Bengals are known for being very high energy, very smart. So they are, I think, for people who kind of want a cat plus, can be a really good companion. But because they are a hybrid of a domestic cat, which as I hinted at, is like semi domesticated, but still has a lot of wild traits. And then you're going even further in the wild direction by mating them with a wild animal. You can have a lot of behavioral problems with those cats, especially if they don't have an environment in which they can thrive. So we do see a fair amount of urine marking, litter box avoidance, biting and scratching of people. So there are some challenges. I'm not saying that all of them are like that, but I just think that people really need to be thoughtful in purchasing these cats and understanding how they're bred and what the conditions are of the cattery that they came from. And just make sure that it's a good fit for your lifestyle. They're definitely not the kind of cat I would suggest for someone who works 12-hour days and is barely home because they need a lot. They need a lot.
Dylan Carnahan:Yeah, you kind of hit on some of this with the specific breeds momentarily. Could you talk a little bit about what the recommended, I guess, selection process someone should undertake? Again, this is a large responsibility as we kind of talked through this.
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Yeah. So, you know, I think if you look at the research, like why people pick the animal they pick, it's rarely a well thought out process. I mean, I can say the same thing, right? When my last cat passed away, my boyfriend and I knew that we wanted to like our next cat would be a family of cats, like we wanted to get siblings. We hadn't decided how many, but, you know, we were on Pet Finder. And then one day a family of three sisters came up and they were cute. And we're like, let's go meet them. And then, you know, we took them home. So there was really, was it well thought out? I mean, I didn't, you know, these kittens were born in a garden. I did get a little background information on them. They were born in a garden. An elderly woman had been caring for them and their mother and their siblings. And then she injured herself and needed to go to the hospital. So this rescue group came and got all the kittens out of her garden and, you know, got the moms being neutered and adopted out the kittens. So you know, it was kind of like a wild card. I mean, if you get a kitten, there is a certain amount of like, you get who you get. And often, you know, if you're not that picky and you understand that the cat, cat's cat is going to need to like get used to you and, you know, adapt to the environment and get comfortable and that you're going to care for them and provide them with a good home no matter what, then I think you don't have to be that selective. You know, our, our current cats are not super cuddly. You know, we would, we would probably like to have cuddlier cats, but we also really love our cats and want them to have a great life and recognize that it's not their responsibility to meet our needs. It's really our responsibility to meet theirs, right? We took on the, the, we made the decision we're going to adopt these cats. So if you are very particular about traits you want, like I really want a lap cat or I really want a cat who will do X, Y, or Z, or I want a cat who's going to like want to walk on a harness, then you should probably look for an adult who has those traits already. Or consider a well-bred cat that has been bred with certain traits in mind. And that does take time and planning. So the other thing is like, you know, often people kind of want a cat today, like they go to the shelter and they want to leave with a kitten. They want to leave with a cat. So sometimes, you know, I think people range in how much they prepare. It's interesting. So that was one thing from working in a shelter too, I can tell you, is that, especially after someone loses a pet, some people really have difficulty coping with that death. And I remember people coming in and they're like, oh yeah, my last cat died 10 years ago and it's taken me this long to get over it to where I feel comfortable adopting another cat, 10 years. And then I had plenty of other people who would come in the next day and they're like, you know what, the house is too empty. I can't go back there without a cat in the house. I really need to save somebody today. So everyone's a little different in how they select a cat and how much care they put into the decision. I think looks plays a big role. I think, you know, I mean, I think all cats are cute, but definitely, you know, some people, they're like, I want an orange cat. All right. You like, you'll take any orange cat or do you, you know, like, okay, you can have this one. But whereas I think, you know, other people would be come to the shelter many times before they made their final decision. So, so I think, you know, I'm definitely more easygoing, like I'm, like it's the cat's house. I just live here, you know, so I just want to make the cats happy. Whereas I think other people really come into it with something they're going to get out of, out of the relationship. And that can be a little more challenging if the cat does not meet your needs for this particular checkbox, not sitting on your lap enough, or too talkative, or wakes you up at three in the morning, or whatever, you know, it's like too active, you know. So it is some of those things, we don't really have good ways of predicting future behavior. So, you know, there's been a fair amount of research on temperament testing of dogs where they try to see, can we predict this dog's personality from their behavior in the shelter, or from their behavior as a puppy? And we have very limited ability to say, like, this dog is going to be aggressive, or this dog is going to be friendly with children, or this dog is going to be safe with other dogs. It's just not, the research demonstrates that those, that type of testing is not very reliable. And so there's been even less research on cats. So it is a bit of a crapshoot, especially if you're getting a kitten, as to what their personality will be like as an adult. And so if you have really strong opinions, again, I would say, try to get an adult cat that has some of those traits already. Or just be a little more easygoing and just let them be who they are. It's kind of like having kids, right? I mean, you know, is your kid going to be like one of those temperamental tantrums having two-year-olds? Are they going to just glide through as a pretty easygoing kid? And you just don't know. Are they going to get in trouble and go to detention? Or are they going to be like an honor roll student?
Dylan Carnahan:Yeah. No, that's fascinating to hear about the, I guess, lack of forecasting, right? And in that, you know, you've mentioned a couple of times about kind of, I want to say, like the asymmetry of maybe research between a dog versus a cat. I'm curious, you know, what are some, I guess, gray area or vague spots that you still don't really understand about cats?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Oh, there's plenty. I mean, really, you know, one thing is, and you know, I also am a scientist. I work for Purdue University and the Animal Welfare Lab. And, you know, one thing is just, it's very, it's hard to study cats. It's hard to get funding for the research. And it's also hard to, like, you can't really bring cats to a lab and expect them to behave how they typically do. And you can't raise cats in a lab and necessarily expect them to, like, behave the way your average house cat does. And I don't personally recommend, like, cats living in a laboratory because it's not a great environment for them. So then that leads us to, well, how can we study cats in people's homes? And so that often means a lot of our research is survey-based, which is always kind of inherently biased by the person filling out the survey. Or we can, you know, put cameras in people's homes, maybe put activity trackers on our cats. And I think that's where a lot of research is going, is like more either biological markers of stress, like, you know, cortisol levels in the blood or other like indicators of like immune function. Or we're looking at technology, like how can we somehow track cat behavior in the home and learn more about them, which makes sense because I think, you know, the home environment is where a lot of cats live and where really their lives are impacted and certainly human lives are impacted. So, but as far as like, what would we like to know? I mean, I think there's still a lot we don't know about even the socialization period that I talked with you about. There has been and there was a fair amount of research, certainly in the like 80s and 90s. But I think there's still more that could be done to help us like actually understand what things could happen at this time that would make kittens a better companion as an adult cat or help them cope with things better. You know, I think about the biggest problems we have as a behavior consultant is cats who don't get along. So people who have cats, you're not the rarity. So about a third of cats live in a single cat household. This is in the US. And then about a third of cats live in a two cat household. And then a third of cats live in a more than two cats household. So for people who have more than one cat, sometimes just the process of bringing a new cat into the home can be like World War III. It is like those cats hate each other. They don't want to see each other. They don't want to smell each other. They see each other. They immediately start fighting and screaming. And it is like really terrorizing for everybody in the home. Everybody's stressed. And then you add like the people who have like five cats. And now you've got multiple relationships that you're trying to navigate. It can be very challenging. It's the most common reason I'm called for help is the cats hate each other. It's not great. It can be a very difficult problem to solve. And you can't assume that just because a cat got along with a previous kitty that lived in the home, that they were like every cat who comes in the door. I mean, if someone picked a roommate for you, what is the probability that you would get along with them and want to be friends with them? So some of it is expectations. Some of it is like understanding how cats would naturally kind of accept newcomers into their territory and having the patience to give that process time. But I think some cases it's like probably one of the cats would be happier living somewhere else. That's something that not everybody feels comfortable with once they've made an adoption commitment. So I don't even remember what was the question. Oh, things that we need to know more about. So what we need to know more about is like why some cats get along easily and other cats do not and how can we make that process more effective and get cats at least to coexist peacefully or even understanding just like, how long does it normally take to introduce two cats safely and are there certain personality traits that help cats get along better? I mean, the research does not suggest that, for example, male or female matters seems like younger cats have an easier time adapting to new cats than older cats do. It makes sense. When I was young, I had four roommates. I loved it. Now that I'm in my 50s, I do not want four roommates unless they're cats. So I think some things make sense, but the reality is that this is causing a lot of problems for people in the home. How can we fix it? Can we use science to help us? I don't know, but I would like to know.
Dylan Carnahan:There has been a tremendous amount of information that you've given to us during this conversation. I'm curious, what advice do you have for the average cat owner?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Yeah, I think it gets back to what I said before, a cat is not a human and is not a dog. So it really, I think, behooves people to learn a little bit about cats, whether it's about their body language or again, their basic needs. There are some really good resources out there for cat owners. iCatCare, so it's icatcare.org, is an organization based in the UK, but they put out a lot of guidelines for cat caregivers. And they did publish in 2013, this document called The Five Pillars of a Healthy Feline Environment. And that is, a lot of us turn to that as kind of our basic, fundamentals for setting up the home for a cat. So I think if you're going to get a cat, you should really, you know, understand their needs and make sure you have the time to provide that cat with an environment that feels safe and fun and stimulating and gives them the ability to be a cat, whether that means climbing up high or scratching something and playing and doing all the fun things that, you know, that those of us who live with happy cats see them do. And hopefully people get joy out of that experience. So, you know, I think sometimes when I'm talking to people about cats, like, I feel like I'm just giving people homework. And that seems like a drag, right? So like people already feel kind of overwhelmed and busy and we're distracted, our phones and, you know, everything else in the world, the news. And, you know, I think a lot of us kind of rely on our pets to provide us with some sort of emotional support. So I understand that. But I really also hope that people get a lot of joy out of providing their cats with a good home. Like to me, the thing that makes me really happy, that I get up in the morning and feel good about is like making my cats happy. Like to me, that is very satisfying, even if it doesn't mean that they're cuddling on me or like, you know, just that I see them relaxed and playing and going out in their catio and watching birds, and just engaged in their environment brings me a lot of joy. And I think that's really, to me, the privilege of caring for these little weird animals that we happen to share our homes with is like really fun. Like they're a completely different species from us. They have completely different, you know, experience of the world, how they see the world, how they smell the world. And all of that really fascinates me, which is I guess why I decided to spend the last like 25 years of my life like nerding out on cats and like learning everything I could about them and talking about cats pretty much all the time. So what I really want people to know is like, it can be really fun to live with a cat and you can make it really fun for your cat too. And so I really hope that, again, people don't listen to me talk and just think, oh, there's like too many things to do. Yeah, there's a lot to do, but you can, you know, cut five minutes a day out of your Instagram scrolling and spend that five minutes a day playing with your cats, right? Like that's what I'm, those are the sacrifices I'm trying to make. It's like, cut back on the time wasting and like have a little more time living in the moment with my cats and really, you know, making them happy. So that's my advice. I don't know. It's tough.
Dylan Carnahan:That's very well said. Again, it's not just a one way street where you have this being that has its utilities to make you feel good. Right. You have a relationship with something. And this is a commitment, as we kind of discussed. There's a lot of responsibility. There's been so much said. And you brought up resources earlier. How can people learn more about you and the work you do?
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Sure. I am online. So certainly you can go to my website, which is my name. So it's michaeldelgado.com. That's mikeldelgado.com. And I'm on Instagram. I have a blog. You can find everything from my website. So I won't give you like my 8,000 different things where you can find me. But yeah, if you go to that website, you'll you can find anything else you would want to know about me. And I do post a lot of Instagram. I do a lot of informational posts for cat caregivers. So I try to make fun educational content, plus just cute pictures of cats. So it's a mix of cute and education.
Dylan Carnahan:Michael, thank you for sharing your knowledge in time today.
Dr. Mikel Delgado:Thank you so much, Dylan. It was really fun chatting with you.
Dylan Carnahan:That wraps up our conversation with Dr. Delgado. We talked about the evolution of cat behavior science and how a passion for animals became a high level academic career, the structural gap between human perception and feline reality regarding behavior, the front line of feline cognition, and what we still don't understand about the domestic cat's mind. Go to this episode's show notes to see any resources Dr. Delgado mentioned during our episode. And lastly, subscribe to the Simple Questions Podcast to get notified when our latest episodes are released. Thank you for listening, and remember to keep asking questions.